Mike Darwinโs response to my piece on the loss of that very good man, Bob Ettinger, caught me completely unaware. I am grateful to you for repeating the offer of a free freeze, Mike, just as I am grateful to the people who sometimes tell me that theyโre going to pray for me. Even though I canโt accept your offer, itโs a kind thought.
Let me quote from a poem that was written long ago by John Dryden, in an attempt to sum up the teachings on this subject of the even longer ago Roman philosopher Lucretius. The last six lines say it all, but Iโll give you the whole thing. It goes like this:
So, when our mortal forms shall be disjoinโd.
The lifeless lump uncoupled from the mind,
From sense of grief and pain we shall be free,
We shall not feel, because we shall not be.Though earth in seas, and seas in heaven were lost
We should not move, we should only be tossโd.
Nay, eโen suppose when we have sufferโd fate
The soul should feel in her divided state,
Whatโs that to us? For we are only we
While souls and bodies in one frame agree.Nay, though our atoms should revolve by chance,
And matter leap into the former dance,
Though time our life and motion should restore.
And make our bodies what they were before,
What gain to us would all this bustle bring?
The new-made man would be another thing.
But I do appreciate the offer.
Chookie Inthebackyard says:
Iโll pray for you![:-)](data:image/svg+xml,<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="72" height="72"><rect fill-opacity="0"/></svg>)
September 9, 2011, 4:09 amBill Higgins-- Beam Jockey says:
John Dryden (1631-1700) liked to talk about atoms? Who knew?
Atoms, of course, are an idea that come to us from Democritus and other Greeksโ Aristotle didnโt like atomsโ but science ignored them until around 1800. So I have practically no knowledge about how people regarded atoms in the 17th century. A topic for further researchโฆ
One of the 19th century chemists who shaped atomic theory was named William Higgins, which has piqued my interest in atoms. Most of my own work is concerned with smashing them.
September 9, 2011, 12:31 pmJohnArmstrong says:
Can you imagine the chillblains a few decades in the freezer would give you?
On another subject, I juts found a copy of Sin in Space at a local bookstore and remembered the name Cyril Judd as being that used by Cyril Kornbluth and Judith Merrill for collaborations. I had never heard of this one, or Beacon Books
Now that Iโve looked up this title and others published by Beacon, Iโd love to hear what you have to say about the line. (They took original stories published in Galaxy, sexed them up, changed the title if they thought it not salacious enough, and commissioned some racy cover art โ space porn.)
Hope youโre well
Best,
September 9, 2011, 7:05 pmJohn
Gregory Benford says:
But Fred, a revived frozen self will be youโฆ
September 10, 2011, 1:05 amJay Borcherding says:
Lovely poem. And I agree with your decisionโcryonics strikes me as a peculiar and amusing choice, one part vanity, another part egotism, a third part fear, a fourth part greed.
Even having said that, if a person is otherwise young and healthy but is struck by a cataclysmic illness, I can barely see the logic and justice of cryonics: they were deprived of a normal lifespan, and need only a successful freezing and defrosting, as well as a cure to a single malady, to have the possibility of decades of healthy life.
Alas, as you are acutely aware, dear Fred, those are not your circumstances. Much more dignified and wise to decline Mr. Darwinโs generous but misguided offer.
Mr. Darwinโs enthusiasm is apparent, but it does make me question his motives. The economics of keeping corpses frozen for centuries has always puzzled me, and cryonics surely is the least-green thing imaginable to do to a body. It must be desperately difficult to market and sell cryonics services, especially in this economy, and especially with increasing acceptance of man-made climate change. I know Iโd feel guilty about sucking down electricity for decades after my demise.
September 10, 2011, 3:46 amDenis Drew says:
In the last chapter of Richard Feynmanโs last autobiography he noted that half the sulfur atoms in your brain were gone in two weeks. Ditto for our bones which take seven years to turn over all their molecules.
What atoms survive cryogenics may not be โyou.โ Whatever โyouโ are may survive your atoms. Iโll pray.![:-)](data:image/svg+xml,<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="72" height="72"><rect fill-opacity="0"/></svg>)
September 12, 2011, 1:12 pmHilary says:
Hi Mr Kohl .. I came over from Susan Kaye Quinnโs blog โ you kindly signed a number of your books that she had owned since childhood ..
.. and I had a fascinated glance through your blog and this post with the poem by Dryden .. so interesting to read ..
You must have lived through so much history as well as recorded some of it here .. I bet youโd love to be in Brooklyn on the 18th .. but cโest la vie โ we cannot do it all .. sadly.
Cheers for now โ lovely to meet you โ Hilary
September 13, 2011, 12:42 pmSusan Kaye Quinn says:
It was such a pleasure to meet you over the weekend (at the library). Thanks for being so gracious about signing all those books!
As for becoming a frozen dead person, we had one of those in our tiny mountain town of Nederland, CO. He was a tourist attraction; certainly not what I hope to be known for after Iโve departed this world! Iโll take what life I have, and if Iโm very lucky, Iโll be mindful of living every moment to the fullest.
September 13, 2011, 12:57 pmDan Gollub says:
Freezing would provide raw material for a clone.
September 13, 2011, 6:18 pmLuke Parrish says:
Does this poet suppose that a person who is cooled to hypothermic temperatures for medical purposes and reawakens with the same memories and personality is no longer the same person? Why does he suppose that he is the same person when he gets out of bed in the morning?
February 29, 2012, 7:56 pmMax More says:
Jay: Electricity is not used to maintain cryonics patients at -196 C. Liquid nitrogen gradually boils off and is replenished periodically. A small amount of power is used for alarm systems and such, but essentially is not required to maintain low temperatures.
The vanity/greed/egotism objection always seems deeply dishonest and self-deluding to me. Would you turn down a life saving drug or surgical procedure? I doubt it.
March 7, 2012, 3:29 pm