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[–]NicholeRichey 138 points139 points  (8 children)

You are the man gwern. Good luck

[–]lividliver 4 points5 points  (0 children)

A whole paragraph was just deleted kinda... I could see the top half of one of the sentences and then the rest disappears it's the bit related to how to fight an administrative subpoena

[–]Theeconomist1 60 points61 points  (23 children)

Maybe this will serve as a warning to trolls who may realize its not a good idea to claim to have doxx info on someone, esp a market admin that has recently cratered. Glad this is stickied b/c every community member should read this and think when they post. I wouldn't want to be the target of any of this shit, and most certainly not b/c I posted bullshit.

[–]lamarrotems 47 points48 points  (5 children)

Would be funny if one of the trolls got arrested for their DNM activities simply because they drew the attention of LE while trolling.

[–]Theeconomist1 14 points15 points  (4 children)

Yeah exactly!!! They get doxxed by LE and get investigated. I hate to see anyone get busted, BUT when its shit like that, I tend to believe its comeuppance. Anyone who were claiming this shit, I'd be a little nervous right now. There could be other subpoenas with other sets of users.

[–]impost_r 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am the real DPR

[–]_-________________-_ 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Why not subpoena /u/_Kimble or /u/_Boogie_ ...? The latter is posting stuff as I'm writing this!!

NSWGreat I understand, but Gwern and some random trolls? WTF?

[–]Derrick4Real 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Gwern's thorough documentation on DNMs from day one til present most likely encompasses 10x's more factual knowledge...and definitely more detailed aspects of the entire DNM history than the Feds have or could have ever culminated. That's why Gwern is unfortunately caught up in it.

He is a highly respected insider. I would not be surprised if they offer him some type of job or deal.

[–]-STIMUTAX- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Perhaps he has had a job all along? It would make more sense the altruist fable we have been told.

[–]Theeconomist1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They could very we'll have. This is a complete guess but I'm sure they group subpoenas in a way such that they aren't going to list every single person of interest in together. they might group them according to potential witnesses vs suspects type of thing. I'd imagine they are subpoenaed as well. Just in a separate one.

[–]Theeconomist1 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I guess what I was trying to say is that I wouldn't view this subpoena as an all inclusive list of all witnesses or subpoenas. Beyond this, we have no idea what other users have been subpoenaed. I'd make the assumption that there are others with separate subpoena. Why or in the manner in which these users were grouped I have no idea except maybe they request different info from different users or they grouo them according to what they might know and their involvement.

[–]brightBlinker 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yes, also as a lesson to all of the people posting personal info, plans, etc.

[–]doubledoseopimpin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yeah dude. I have 100 kilos of 99.9% pure cocaine straight from colombia drug cartels. Do you think people would buy this on silkroad?

[–]bvbvbvbvfhfhfhfh 6 points7 points  (8 children)

A warning to who? You are the mods here and yet any dipshit with an internet connection can and does come on here to threaten dox, claim site vulnerabilites, and put up a market without any vetting or confirmation whatsoever and you 'moderators' let them.

As far as i recall the only thing ive seen the moderators here do is put a lynchmob call out to unpopular markets (TMP wall of shame, really?, SR3 wall of shame because they used the SR moniker even though SR2 did it and were hailed as heroes), and prop up favored markets (evolution were outed as scammers by the_avid and gwern, you know that guy were all here rooting for, and you still allowed this market to be listed). And even after the whole Evo fallout and the_avid's call to keep the drug markets distance from fraud anyone who so much as mentions the fact that fraud is aggression gets censored by the mods or downvoted by their rabid shills.

If the mods here had any integrity at all they would have prevented these bad actors who have the potential to cause what is happening right now by doing their job instead of silencing honest discussion and inciting mobs.

Alright i had my say, commence with the censoring & brigading.

[–]samanthasecretagent 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Whom: A warning to whom?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Oh look, it's Silk Road Reloaded with yet another shill account! Nice attempt at stylometry change but you aren't quite there yet!

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

no amount of stylometry change can hide being a meth fueled loonie

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

SR2 hailed as heroes?

[–]Deafcunt -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Sr2 was never hailed as heroes.

[–]brfRottenPotato 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your statement is dumb because it implies that they somehow had the ability to see into the future and know those things were going to happen. That's just dumb.

[–]someguitarplayer -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Isn't this chaos exactly what trolls want?

[–]gwernbatsignal 48 points49 points  (2 children)

Gwern, the US GOVT is fucking terrifying. Thank you a million times over for all of your diligent research. I'm speaking for everyone on this subb when I say, you are the best journalist that has ever graced the deep web.

EDIT: I tried to give you gold but it doesn't work over TOR apparently :(

[–]brightBlinker 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's really impossible to know the full scope of capabilities and is kinda cute everyone thinks they're "secure" in some sense of the word.

Back in 2013 when ES released those cables, it was found that in 2012 Tor (paraphrasing) "provided some difficulty in tracking users"...that was in 2012.

A lot can happen in 2-3 years, especially concerning software.

With the revelation that they were involved in backdoors via Dual_EC_DRBG and other encryption systems (LOOKING AT YOU RSA & CNE, YOU MOTHERFUCKERS), it's a very, very short stretch of the imagination that they have Tor nodes set up to capture traffic.

Tor should not be considered secure. PGP is iffy but know that your activities aren't hidden.

edit: Thank god for the open source community. Every time you feel secure, drop to your knees and thank Zimmerman, Schneider, et al for providing de-centralized, peer-reviewed encryption schemas.

[–]_Colorado_ 26 points27 points  (11 children)

As far as I am concerned, gwern is a journalist.

[–]AgoraMarket 25 points26 points  (3 children)

As far as I am concerned, gwern is a journalist.

... a Gwernalist? :)

[–]_Colorado_ 11 points12 points  (2 children)

sigh......reluctant clap

[–]tripsmagee 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Someone do the monkey drum roll thing!

[–]warriorlord 3 points4 points  (0 children)

gwernalism

[–]brightBlinker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As far as I am concerned, reddit is journalism

FTFY

[–]cannaoil 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I see deepdot as journalism, and gwern as an encyclopedia.

[–]InfinitelyOutThere -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

And we are the popcorn munchers :D

[–]lamarrotems 34 points35 points  (39 children)

This isn't surprising, and hopefully it will lead to two things:

  1. People donating to /u/gwern - I know I will.

  2. People increasing OpSec and being smarter in general about what they post.

I would NEVER EVER be posting like this on /r/DarkNetMarkets if I was an active buyer/vendor as I know I can be doxxed with minimal effort. If you are talking about your DNM activities you need to use TOR or some other secure means of posting.

We all know LE watches this subreddit, and I really hope this is a good reminder for people that it is happening. I was shocked about how few supoena's Reddit was served last year, and am guessing that number will increase rapidly.

Gwern, I now assume this was the reason for that one tweet on the interpretation of that subsection of subpoena related law?

I get paid tomorrow, will be donating.

[–]666fun 13 points14 points  (12 children)

I would NEVER EVER be posting like this on /r/DarkNetMarkets if I was an active buyer/vendor as I know I can be doxxed with minimal effort. If you are talking about your DNM activities you need to use TOR or some other secure means of posting.

Yeah, I'm often shocked at what people have to say here, and I can't believe that everyone uses Tor to connect to this sub; I came here due to the excitement about SR's bust way back when, and have stuck around for morbid curiosity... But you had better believe, that if I hadn't moved on from that point in my life, i certainly wouldn't be talking about such activities on a forum like this, where everything is easily logged,etc...

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]lamarrotems 10 points11 points  (6 children)

    And as someone already pointed out - it only takes connecting one time by accident from the wrong location by accident for someone to be identified.

    [–]brightBlinker 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    Uhhh...it takes much less than that if the ES cables on domestic technology capabilities are in fact remotely accurate.

    [–]lamarrotems 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    I think that is the "extralegal" process- not sure they would subpoena Reddit if they were going that route. Just a thought, obviously I have zero clue.

    [–]brightBlinker 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    No, no, you're right.

    However, if/when a case is brought, that certainly could be included as evidence against you (even going as far as obstructing the source of the evidence through various means).

    I mean, yes, those are extreme examples and highly unlikely (inter-departmental communication is a nightmare); however, you should know the capability more-than-likely (does) exist. :)

    [–]lamarrotems 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Makes sense.

    Also, am I crazy or did almost all those NSA powerpoints state explicitly that cannot be used for domestic surveillance on US citizens? Was that just for some programs?

    Am I remembering correctly?

    Also, I realize what they are "supposed" to do is very likely different from what they actually do.

    [–]brightBlinker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I'm not sure which statements ruled out domestic surveillance (likely several "official" statements), but the ES leaks clearly show that was not and is not followed. If you trust those.

    (I remember talks that US citizens wouldn't be "tracked" [whatever that encompasses] unless they had been in contact with foreign nationals with known ties to terrorism--we now know that wasn't true because of the sheer scope of the programs, relatively cheap storage and difficulty in profiling).

    Also, I realize what they are "supposed" to do is very likely different from what they actually do.

    Right...when they want something, they get it. (see: LOVEINT)

    Also, what they "can" do doesn't mean they "do" or even care...

    [–]brightBlinker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Like those people talking/asking about how to move massive quantities of drugs from DNM -> streets.

    Like wtf??!?!?!?!

    I really, really hope they know security inside and out...can't imagine anything stupider.

    [–]Vendor_BBMC -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

    TOR is under attack, too.

    But when you think about it - logically - you'd think "hold on? Why are none of Her Majesty's Meth vendors on the list, instead of those idiotic no-marks?"

    "Is it April Fools day or something?"

    [–]sobulbous 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    You wanna be on that list so bad. Don't worry there is still plenty of time left.

    [–]throoorowowowooaaa 8 points9 points  (20 children)

    I've considered making a Firefox extension that creates a throwaway reddit account with one click. Does anyone know if such a thing violates Reddit's ToS?

    [–]clairvoyance1 8 points9 points  (16 children)

    Throwaways don't help when police get your ip...

    [–]throoorowowowooaaa 6 points7 points  (15 children)

    The IP of a tor exit node?

    [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (3 children)

    I think Gwern needs a lawyer and he's annoying me by not seeking on out, so if anyone could find someone to do the case pro bono, or wants to set up a separate legal consul donation drive please speak up. Remember its all of our internet freedoms we are talking about here, NO ONE should be subject to having their inbox examined (gwern has been active on reddit for 8 years) just for talking to trolls. To be the subject of a search warrant you are supposed to be guilty of a crime, otherwise its a gross violation of your 4th amendment rights which explicitly state you should be secure in your letters. There are gaps between the current US laws and the digital world and we need to speak up and act out to affect change...

    to adapt the age old saying to our modern predicament: first they came for the drug dealers, then they came for the site admins, then they came for the Gwerns... when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

    /u/sapiophile this is what I was talking about the other day

    [–]brightBlinker 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    What is gwern doing that's wrong?

    Like many people here, he probably has little to no affiliation with DNM activities. A lot of users have a purely academic interest in the subject.

    edit: I have no idea gwern's affiliation with DNMs btw...could be heavily involved. Too busy to go snooping through his history.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    not lawyering up right now.

    [–]brightBlinker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Can't imagine he hasn't ;)

    [–]-moose- 22 points23 points  (10 children)

    you might enjoy

    Delaware Attorney General Throws Subpoeana At Reddit Over Comment On Photo Of Two People Having Sex Behind A Dumpster

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140623/04094727654/delaware-attorney-general-throws-subpoeana-reddit-over-comment-photo-two-people-having-sex-behind-dumpster.shtml

    How Is It That A Random Comment On Reddit Leads To Your Friend Getting Tracked By The FBI? | Techdirt

    http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/drgp9/how_is_it_that_a_random_comment_on_reddit_leads/


    would you like to know more?

    http://www.reddit.com/r/moosearchive/comments/2bz9rq/archive/cjacuxm

    [–]impost_r 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    You're a legend -moose-

    [–]brightBlinker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    MOOOOOOOSE

    [–]pxck 11 points12 points  (1 child)

    /u/gwern, why does the address for donations listed in your post differ from the one listed on your website?

    [–]mephestus 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    Thank you for putting others first. You have balls. We will not forget what you have to deal with on this day.

    [–]MLP_is_my_OPSEC 13 points14 points  (7 children)

    Shit, this is bad. Not just for you, and I hope you're able to get through this, but the community in general. We all knew the troll posts were bad, but now we know how bad it can get. The last thing we need is more LE presence here and the drama-loving trolls are fucking that up for the rest of us law-abiding citizens.

    Stay safe /u/gwern and do what you have to do. Maybe /u/NCLawyer could give some helpful advice.

    [–]lamarrotems 5 points6 points  (3 children)

    I wouldn't expect Gwern to do anything else but cooperate fully. Why would he put his ass on the line for other's sake? (Assuming he is at risk at all).

    Of course that excludes all the ethical considerations of research - but I am fairly confident he took the necessary precautions and proper steps in that regard.

    Are we really surprised at all that LE would subpoena /r/DarkNetMarkets users?

    [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

    I'm afraid that he might get in trouble for his postings on his website where he documents his ordering process

    [–]lamarrotems 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I am sure he just photoshopped that stuff ya know? Or recorded someone else ordering, but acted like he did.

    Or something along those lines.

    Honestly, he probably is fine. Worse case they will want information from him, and I don't see any reason why not comply. If he has confidential sources for stuff, which could screw someone, then that is a different story.

    But I am pretty Gwern uses proper OpSec procedures when necessary just in case something like this happened. He always knew it was a possibility (he said that), and I think he is prepared.

    Still sucks, but hopefully all will work out.

    [–]SWIMstains 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    At the very least it may make people a bit less credulous the next time some troll comes around promising exactly what everyone wants.... but I doubt it.

    [–]tonyeverready 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    /u/gwern,

    i cant thank you enough for the sheer volume of information that you have provided this community in regards to tutorials, safety, and identifying the shadiest of the shady on the shady part of the interwebs.

    i have decided to donate the remainder of my coin to your fund (which was supposed to go to evo funnily enough lulz). you have been the single source of information that this community has thrived on for the past ~2 years.

    if there was anything i could say to comfort your fears i would, but there's not. obviously you're not a dealer/reseller/druggie so i assume that in general they just want to get at the information that z-l or deepthroat sent to see if it's legit. once they realize it's not they'll be like ah fuck we just got trolled. i highly doubt anything will come of it, and in fact i suspect this is a psyop in coordination with multiple DDOS attacks in a new vulnerability or something like that.

    look guys, it's obvious that silk road had help. dea agents providing info, corrupt LE stealing funds, and continuing scams to fill their own pockets. i mean, anyone who can't notice that...let me tell you something. the united states is in piss poor shape. the economy is shite, the country's opportunities have all but vanished, and this country is no longer a "free" country. where "free speech" zones exist, and corrupt politicians and medical experts who are in bed with corporations keep stuff like cannabis illegal; you have to expect this kind of shit.

    yeah it's sad, it's really fucking sad. there have been shimmers of hope, but i really don't think it's going to get any better here. it wouldn't surprise me if evo got word from an informant that the hammer was about to come down and they fucking split, as well as splitting their proceeds with the informing party(ies).

    imagine being some mid-level fbi agent. you make what $60k a year? here you are investigating criminals making millions upon millions every month or so. what the fuck would you do? keep that $60k salary? or fuck it and say "hey give me $10 million and call it quits, and i'll keep these fuckers on the wrong track."

    well that's exactly what's happening here.

    best of luck gwern, you're a reporter. a journalist. an artist. and a genius. you'll be fine dude.

    [–]ShulginsCat 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    I'm presumably included because I offered to verify z-l's Evolution hashes using my own Evo accounts' passwords

    Subpoena means they think you might have useful information in your account history - not necessarily that they want to charge you with anything. It could very well be that they are more interested in the people who've PMed you then anything you actually have/know. When a 1+yr investigation goes down the drain, you can imagine they will try to grasp on whatever they can get.

    [–]DankNetMarkets 7 points8 points  (3 children)

    God! please let EVOSMITH, Z-L & DEEPTHROAT_ get busted.

    Gwern, All the best to you.

    [–]AgoraMarket 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    What are they going to be busted for? Is trolling a crime?

    LE: "Mr. Z-L, we traced your IP address to this house, were you the person posting stuff about working for Evolution and knowing Verto?"

    Z-L: "heh, I was just kidding. I don't know any of the Evolution admins, I was just hoping for free bitcoins"

    LE: "..."

    [–]DankNetMarkets 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    What are they going to be busted for

    idk. I just wish they do, for whatever reason

    [–]KillMeAndYouDie -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

    Could they get nicked for obstruction of justice? I'm really not clued up on laws like that but even just lying about knowing the identity of a wanted criminal is probably a crime in and of itself

    [–]mackenley95366646 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    Now imagine reddit receives a court order forcing them to run a maliscious javascript as soon as user XXXX logs in. It would be hard to detect for us users because it would run only once for a particular time and a particular user. And we trust reddit to run javascript, even using tor. What do you think?

    [–]itisike 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You could run an OS in which javascript is safe(r), e.g. Whonix. In theory, malware running as root cannot get your IP.

    [–]dsfgsad 6 points7 points  (4 children)

    Can we get /u/IGetDankShit subpoenaed by ICE?

    [–]IGetDankShit 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    ಠ_ಠ

    [–]dsfgsad -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

    Nah it's all fun games

    [–]InfinitelyOutThere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    uhh why would we/they want that?

    [–]Oracle_DNM 4 points5 points  (4 children)

    Gwern Is Exit Scamming!

    (Now Seriously, It doesn't sounds like you are in real danger & good luck in any case!)

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    5/5 stealth was so amazing I didn't even realize that gwern had completely destroyed my argument and left me with no trace of credibility until 2 hours later when the feeling of being completely pwn'd came over me.

    [–]throwahooawayyfoe 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    "I am hereby exercising my right to have an attorney present with me during any and all questioning from this point forward. I will not answer any questions without one and I choose to remain silent until one arrives."

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [removed]

      [–]AutoModerator[M] 16 points17 points  (2 children)

      Error-Butthurt

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      [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

      man, automod's getting sassy lately

      [–]throoorowowowooaaa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Never thought I'd LOL at an automod post.

      [–]Toruser6669 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Why did they not ask for Kimbles IP address as he had Reddit? I know he was too smart to fuck up, but for all we know for a split second over the past year and a half there could be a chance he accidentally logged in whilst not behind VPNs/Socks

      [–]earthmoonsun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      LE is very short-sighted. With actions like these, they really encourage more people, even the dumbest criminals, to learn about encryption, and consequently lose any chance to find the people they are looking for.

      [–]PsyHighBuyTieDie1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Gwern, the government wants to find you to use you for the CIA. They're going to hook up your brain to their intelligence computer system and start unmasking everyone by sheer deductive power.

      Anyway I wouldn't be too worried, the government just wants to see if some special person sent you some super secret info about market owners because, being the almighty god of human knowledge, you tend to be privy to inside shit. They clearly are trying and failing to figure out anything about the Evolution operators. The fact that they're resorting to a Reddit subpeona, an ineffective move, indicates that they really have their thumbs up their asses. Like everyone else here they cling to the desperate hope that the trolls aren't bullshitting. Verto and Kimble are fucking ghosts, good luck catching these masters federal govt.

      [–]guyfromaplace2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Geez. I guess it is time to start connecting to here using TOR. Kind of a pain in the ass to have to start using that again but thought the day may come.

      Out of curiosity, how many of you use TOR for this who don't actively participate in the DNM's?

      All i want to do is follow the drama :[

      [–]Sloppy__Jalopy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Thanks Batman.

      Much appreciated, as always.

      [–]ThrowawayTehGay 0 points1 point  (7 children)

      Damn! I'll send a few Satoshis Gwern's way too. And as others have said, the rest of us should also take away from this the importance of maintaining good reddit OPSEC. That should include a special account used for the DNMs that is only used through TOR via Tails. I don't even want a record of the text I'm reading/typing to show up in my paging file.

      Take care, be safe everyone, and best of luck to you Gwern. You've provided many a valuable service to our community.

      [–]ClearlyRandomName -1 points0 points  (6 children)

      Funny how gwern talked about OPSEC and you just suggested you were going to donate, to a known wallet linked in gwern's post, after all the reasons why you shouldn't do stuff like this is available either in the original posting or in the comments.

      People, keep this stuff private, for everyone's sake.

      [–]throoorowowowooaaa 4 points5 points  (3 children)

      How could a throwaway reddit account used over tor ever be traced to bitcoin activity?

      [–]ThrowawayTehGay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      ha! If I can handle sending coins to addresses that I assume are easily associated with known illegal drug markets, I think I can handle sending money to a random redditor's address. I don't care if it's the FBI's own private wallet, because there's absolutely no way to correlate me to my bitcoin transactions. I have a naked chick in the other room waiting for me to come violate her pussy, so I'll just link to a few relevant guides I've written the past and assure you that I'm nowhere near stupid enough to ever touch a bitcoin wallet on the clearnet, or even reuse the same wallet for more than one transaction. I don't even touch the DNMs or this Reddit account outside of a secure amnesic environment. Tails + Electrum = Winning. Now I'm gonna go get my dick wet. Have fun correlating that metadata with my darknet activities.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/21jens/guide_using_altcoin_exchanges_to_tumble_your_btc/

      https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/2zypyf/opseccomputer_guide_for_installing_electrum_20_on/

      https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/21j80v/guide_for_installing_the_dogecoinqt_wallet_on_a/

      [–]ThrowawayTehGay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Would you care to explain how a throwaway Electrum wallet created via TOR connection over a booted TAILS environment can possibly be correlated to me? If I can obscure my coins well enough to buy drugs from markets that have been targeted by an oppressive police force, I feel pretty confident that I can safely send them to a redditor. Consider further that even if the Secret Service or FBI kicked down Reddit's door and demanded my IP, I've never touched this account outside of TOR using (you guessed it) TAILS. This isn't rocket science, people. Or is it?

      [–]MrCrappy57 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Just wanted to say I'm sorry this is happening to Gwern. He is a great member of the community. Best wishes, will donate. Thanks for everything you do, Gwern. This isn't right. I can't believe my government.

      [–]massiveweiner 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Seems likely that the pigs spent months investigating evo, flipping vendors, getting UCs into the staff etc, then V&K do a runner and they're left seething and clutching at straws!

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Hahaha. That thought is the one shining shard of light in this whole evo disaster. Yes, they're robbing scum......but if I had to pick between them running with the loot or getting banged up and the Feds taking said loot then I know which i'd choose.

      [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Well I'm done with darknet all together. It's too real now.

      [–]ttrravis 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      i live far away - but ICE, hadnt heard of them to know. What a fantastic name for LE agency. Would of been hi-5's when they put that together. Its such a weird and wonderful world. Surely they all love saying. I work for ICE! Im surprised you haven't been asked to work for ICE! approach you before the subpoena. Isnt there more to gain from Gwern as a secret ICE agent,rather than blowing it all up. if your starting a tor market place - how do you let people know about it. Anyway I sprained an ankle at footy training last night. The physio recommended i try METH as a new approach to recovery. So today i was puffing away at lunch time as the physio walked passed he asked, how you find METH?. Fantastic, here give it a go... HE said no no no, METH is the knew approach to soft tissue injury, it refers to Movement, Elevation, Traction and Heat... This is now seen as a better option than ICE..Ok thats good,cause those other times when id been using ICE each during the week like you said, well im not real sure it was working either, and to be honest, using METH, i cant tell the difference

      [–]StuffyKnows2Much 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I'm going to upvote you because I get my daily giggle (m8) by revisiting this community and witnessing the lunacy it has become. Please continue.

      [–]CocaineNose 1 point2 points  (6 children)

      Not sure I understand why they didn't put a gag order? If you were investigating these users, why tell them?

      [–]lamarrotems 5 points6 points  (4 children)

      Probably wasn't worth their effort - I don't think anyone is surprised they are trying to find Verto/Kimble, and I don't think this post is going to cause them to lose relevant information.

      LE must be desperate though if they are subpoenaing the trolls? Keep us updated man, I would be pretty shocked if you were in any trouble. They want to know what you know because you are a valuable source of information - simple as that. I truly believe you have always taken the proper steps for yourself and for others in your research, and now those steps will pay off.

      [–]CocaineNose 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      they have to follow all leads fake or not. Pretty dumb of someone to troll that they can doxx owners of a multi-million dollar DNM in public.

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      yeah thats what we all thought about DPR too.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      The sensible ones of us thought that, the egotistical spazzers thought: "Hmm! I wanna be famous too!" and opened their yaps to anyone who'd listen.

      Poor old Deepthroat. I'd bet my last satoshi that it's Oracle having one last attention seeking hurrah whilst knowing jack shit. She's probs sitting at home oblivious to all this drama cause she's in a tizz that everyone called her out and hasn't logged on.

      Doh!

      [–]grandpajoe_dnm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Stay safe my friend.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      All i gotta say is ...fuck the illegitimate pigsters #FTP .. And really what is ice doing in all this ?shouldn’t they be running There highly unconstitutional internment camps that prisoners are rioting in, And taking some corporate private prison ceo dick in there ass. My Advice shed your accounts , make new get a vpn that takes bitcoin (run it ) open a virtual player . use tails( or run a different OS and use your vpn account [choose a different server on account ] on the virtual machine ( this chains your vpn ) / also the virtal machine helps with submasking and other things... Download Tor cruise reddit

      [–]trecht 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Land of the free!

      [–]PatchWork- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Thank you for providing us with this information Gwern.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Great post Gwern!! (: love you

      [–]presari0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Im very sorry to hear about your troubles gwern. You are one of the most interesting and outstandingly intelligent people Ive ever met on the internet. This sub will sorely miss your contributions. I hope nothing but the best for you in the future, compadre.

      [–]mad87645 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      U DA BES GWERN

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      How do you even use tor on reddit? It shadow bans me,

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I'm truly speechless about the activities that are taking place today. Thank you, gwern, for everything you've done for this community. The corrupted forces known as the US government is going to be hard to go against if you go to court for anything due to the streaming propaganda that is fed to the citizens. If you know they have nothing on you, just keep your mouth shut and talk to a lawyer. If they raid your home, keep your mouth shut and talk to a lawyer. Good luck, and godspeed.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Thank you /u/gwern. You are a hero to this sub. We all greatly appreciate everything you have done.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Sent some love, thank you for what you do.

      [–]DoctrZoidberg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Good luck Gwern :)

      [–]Jay-__ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Weird to see your name in a list with those.

      [–]anti-omni -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      i'm not one to hand out epeen, but great post gwern. Way to not be a faggot.

      [–]ThisIsCanadaMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      LE should hire you

      [–]MF17 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      TL;DR ?

      [–]throwthrowitaway11 0 points1 point  (11 children)

      I have not purchased from any markets for quite some time now (because it would interfere with my self-experiments, true, but nevertheless).

      Anyone else having a really hard time believing this? I understand fully why Gwern is claiming this, but it's simply way too hard to believe.

      [–]lucasjkr 8 points9 points  (7 children)

      People can be interested in and want to research subjects that they don't paticipate in. The darknets are a prime example even - the drama is constant, it's like a never ending mystery nobel. It's easy to see why people who arent involved in buying it selling in the darjnets would be interested in this sub. Im one if them too, my drugged days are well behind me, yet I come to this sub nearly every day...

      [–]-STIMUTAX- 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      You are not the only one!

      Bear in mind that Gwern has a along history of reporting about the markets (recall the Sheepmarketplace DoX?) . I am sure the trust his has built has given him many contacts which are now potential exposed. Frankly if you were looking to understand the players community, there is nowhere better to start than Gwern.

      Let's hope this is not the catalyst to further subpoenas .

      [–]InfinitelyOutThere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I hope so too.

      [–]throwthrowitaway11 0 points1 point  (4 children)

      This is harder to believe if you hold a moderator position of a DNM forum.

      [–]sobulbous 6 points7 points  (3 children)

      I don't find it very hard to believe.

      Look at all the data gwern compiles openly and publicly. It clearly demonstrates that he is in it for the research. All of his posts allude to that as well.

      There are plenty of people on this sub that have never and don't plan on using the markets. They might find this whole experiment interesting, find the drama entertaining, have an interest in crypto/ Bitcoin, infosec, privacy, anonymity, curiosity in trans/Bailey Jay... the list goes on.

      [–]arbitrarysquid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I am one of those. I have found the darknet markets fascinating since I first learned of them several years ago, and have been following the action on Reddit for a few years now. I have installed Tor and browsed various markets, but never bought anything. There are definitely substances on there that I would like to try and I buy weed and THC shatter wax locally, but the idea of leaving any kind of trace online or with the post office where I could be facing federal felonies? I don't trust other people not to fuck up or do something malicious or just that my package might get profiled or get ripped open by a mail-processing facility enough to go the darknet route.

      [–]leave_a_lilypad 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I'm one of those. Don't use the markets, don't plan to use the markets, but this sub has been highly entertaining and educational. Best of luck to you, /u/gwern!

      [–]alwayslookingformore 8 points9 points  (1 child)

      I dont know about statute of limitations and all that, but I feel like this is maybe not the best thing to be openly talking about. Even if the records of this are out there, why bring it up as a reminder?

      Hopefully, they are after V&K, but I would hate to see you get taken down too for something like this.

      [–]MrCrappy57 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I want to second this. Gwern is very smart, but LE types can be really scary and crazy. At the least they could threaten him and stress him out. Feel terrible this is happening to such a good guy.

      [–]R4ID 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Holy SHIT THIS IS CRAZY..... donating some spare btc for sure. best of luck gwern.

      [–]Moridakkubokka 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      This is some intense shit right here.

      Fuck the LE, good luck on your journeys gwern.

      [–]huntokartography 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Thank you for being as active as you have been in researching DNM and keping all of us abreast of DNM news. Hopefully everything works out okay.

      [–]adam2222 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Wow, thanks for letting us know, Gwern....Sounds like you are most likely safe, fortunately...

      On the bright side...maybe theyll catch those fucking evo scammers and send them to jail...that would be worth it, imho

      [–]deepdot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Oh fuck these are terrible news. Keep safe!

      [–]token_dave 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      "dangerous talk" is not necessarily dangerous, only non-government-approved. Talking about freeing slaves was also dangerous at one point in time if you were caught by the feds.

      [–]Therealfed1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Smile and wave boys, smile and wave

      [–]GIEV_RP_PLZ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Has evosmith deleted his posts on reddit, why so few?

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Why is this all of a sudden the DHS and not the DEA dealing with this? Calling this a threat to national security? This is another level of scary.

      [–]RUMBLINGBUTTHOLE 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Godspeed, Gwern. I wish you freedom for the rest of your days.

      [–]KW-NZ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Good luck Gwern! Hope you dont get fucked over bro

      [–]GriseldaBlancoke 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Can someone explain whats the big drama?

      1. They filed subpena
      2. The will get all the data from these accounts
      3. Look at it
      4. Won't find the stuff they are interested in, since it doesn't exists there (the "Proofs" basically)
      5. Confirm that they were just troll accounts.
      6. We'll never hear about this again.

      What am i missing here? Does anyone here honestly believe that they are going to arrest Gwern?

      Funniest thing is, look at all these downvotes i got When i said that DeepThroat and z-l are trolls and should be ignored, hope that the lesson is learned - these idiots are not just innocent trolls - they can cause real harm.

      [–]lamarrotems 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      On the downvotes:

      Once a comment goes beyond -2 it seems to almost always continue on a downward trend (unless it something that very clearly people would upvote).

      You could probably make the same comment in the same thread and have one upvoted by the masses and one downvoted by the masses.

      Obviously there are tons of exceptions and this is a gross over-generalization, but you get the point.

      [–]BurungHantu 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Won't find the stuff they are interested in

      You don't know what kind of data are in these accounts. You don't know what they are interested in.

      [–]GriseldaBlancoke 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Its pretty clear that they are interested at something - and that they will find nothing in TROLL accounts FFS

      The only one in some risk (in case he did not use Tor) is NSWgreat

      [–]rickross47 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      Fuck Le. why cant they just leave us alone

      [–]durgsrbad -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      evosmith will go down in history as one of the world's great liars, but it will all be overshadowed by his trolling ability. It's not a pretty thought, but it's none too hard to see the raging boner that twat will sport for the next few months after reading the OP.

      [–]throwthrowitaway11 -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

      Good thing I've only ever used this subreddit via Tor

      [–]SWIMstains 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Don't be sloppy. Don't fool yourself into thinking they don't care about you. You never know what sequence of events may lead you to their focus.

      [–]Axaq -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

      /u/gwern sorry to hear this as you've provided so much for the community, just in regards to the message im replying to, is Tor essentially enough to protect you in terms of IP address etc? Of course there's no known cracking of Tor encryption etc however is there any known way they would link your traffic through your ISP? Ive always assumed Tor was secure enough even on clearnet sites but the whole situation with this and the information they have requested has put doubt in my mind to be honest.

      [–]lamarrotems 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      I don't think Gwern has anything to hide from LE to be honest - he wasn't buying or selling on DNM's.

      [–]Axaq -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

      I know, I'm talking about the possibility of an IP still being retrieved even if using Tor. I don't know the full technicalities of it to know if there is any possible way through clearnet sites, apart from possible script attacks.

      [–]666fun -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      Tor's original purpose was to provide people the means to browse and communicate on the clearnet without being tracked or censored... Hidden services came about later. So generally, browsing on the safer side, with caveats... Like, if you have flash installed in the browser you use to access Tor (not likely for many, since it's not included in TBB) or if you have javascript enabled (thats a bigger one, since AFAIK - javascript seems to be enabled by default in TBB), then you could have some points of vulnerability...

      [–]causejodysaysso 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      TLDR

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      There is a method to my madness, if you can figure it out, you might get gold!

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      [–]Glassjunkie -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      The federal goverment needs to go after dark markets reddit page. it's a source for many illicit drugs. they even play that tripsit is harm reduction when they are teaching kids how to get high. The feds will have you all eating prison food soon. enjoy drug addicts.

      [–]SilentDager -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

      I heard a rumor they only assign gay people to go through these comments!

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Shit

      [–]1percentof1 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

      David Koresh is sacred and he wants money.

      [–]Biteitliketysen -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

      I wish I knew what was going on here.. This seems really interesting

      [–]thewilloftheuniverse -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

      This is why I deliberately beleive all trolling bullshit, now matter how contradictory.

      Of course, I also happen to know for a fact that this story is entirely bullshit, and I can see right through it.

      Of course, that right there is bullshit too. Did you know that one time I murdered a puppy by feeding it to a vegan I was starving to death?

      [–]mwthink -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

      I chipped in a few bucks. Good luck and godspeed.

      [–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

      All good things must come to an end.

      [–]STEZN -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

      You can be served via reddit..

      Was trying to say can't*

      [–]STEZN -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

      t

      [–]blamehofmann -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

      I sure don't hope this means we have to start using SWIM.